Drink Tank

Extra Aqua Vitae Nulla Salus

2.13.2006

Bawls

More here

"Someone is provoking us!!!"

As pointed out in the comments: “Help! Help! I’m being oppressed!”

Perhaps we should add another amendment, guaranteeing the right not to be offended. That certainly seems like the logical conclusion of decades of PC bullshit.

12 Comments:

At 11:36 AM, Blogger Paul Boyer said...

I am very sorry for my spelling and grammar.

When I joined Drink tank I thought that it would really be a lot more about drinking and less a forum for conservative politics. Just by a quick count of whats posted on the main page, I guess I was wrong. Yet, Ivan, I as you do, believe in the freedom of speech for cartoonists and Muslims. What I saw in that video is somthing very different then you. I guess its perhaps a different world view. I saw two men who were being "Provacitive." Many of the yelling Muslim men were accusing them of trying to insight violence. A common political tactic of counter-demonstrators. Notice the colorful hard hats? Any crowd will turn on agitators, and this is why they were caliing them provacuters (SP?). Provoking violence somthing that is incidentaly banned in most western democratic countries. Its not "Bawls" it is to be despised when anyone does it.

So I just wish that this site was more about drinking. Drinking is somthing that can bring us all together. Not about divisive politics on the left or the right (Though I know the majority of posters are left wing yet the majority of posts are are by Ivan and are right). Ivans right that there needs to be tolerance, its what keeps Ivan from being yelled off the board. I don't really know him or agree with his politics, But I would still drink with him. He is probably a fine guy So what am I saying? lets get serious about drinking. Or at least let us have a reprasentitive democrecy on drink tank. I am saying Ivan, friends of drink tank... Lets have a drink, I am buying.

 
At 1:18 PM, Blogger Ivan said...

There is no reason to be violent towards people just standing there. People who start a fight because of a passive plackard and a hard hat need to grow the fuck up.

Note that they were being provacative simply by exercising speech. The solution to (what some people inevitably find) offensive speech, is more speech --- not kid glove excuses for thugs.


I'll be in NYC this weekend :)

 
At 2:35 PM, Blogger Miguel said...

You know how some blogs have friday cat blogging or friday squid blogging?

Since reactonary right wing politics is really only your pet subject, Ivan, why don't we just save 'em up for Friday. It'll be cute, and I'll join in with a limerick about John Bolton and the Nobel Peace Prize. This way, we can keep the blog a little more readable the rest of the week, and it'll be fun when we all do a Friday Reactonary Right Wing Politics post. Sound good?

 
At 5:09 PM, Blogger joško said...

Not to be too provocative, but I don't think the hard-hated guys were trying to provoke violence. Their signs were small. Wearing hard hats is common at protests. If they had posters of the offensive cartoons, I'd probably agree that be crossing the line of reason.

Finally, they ran off at the first sign of verbal attack, much less physical.

 
At 6:08 PM, Blogger Ivan said...

They didn't run off -- they were dragged away by a plain clothes cop.

And who cares if they were provocative? You're telling me that if you happen to find this comment offensive, you wouldn't been 100% at fault for punching me because of it?

And what, miguel & paul, you have nothing to say for the shit those thugs were saying like, eg effectively "you're a bunch of fags!"

Why are you defending these people?

As for 'ivan friday rants', I think i'd rather just quit posting things that get no serious discussion. I think I'll also quit posting things like cute pictures and funny videos.

To put it another way: I think I'm done.

If there is an extremely urgent video of someone getting hurt or a picture of something really cute, I’ll make sure to email it in.

Do enjoy the booze talk.

 
At 8:13 PM, Blogger joško said...

Jeeze, guys, way to bully my brother off the blog. Sheeeesh

 
At 8:51 PM, Blogger Miguel said...

No serious discussion? I was totally serious!

Here it is now, to prove it:

John Bolton will get the Nobel with some luck
And prove that United Nations scum suck!
Jerks will cry in their beers
Coward liberal tears
For Mr. John Bolton is a darn nice fellow

 
At 9:28 PM, Blogger Ivan said...

Not bullied, bored :)

 
At 9:53 PM, Blogger Andrew said...

"Ivans right that there needs to be tolerance, its what keeps Ivan from being yelled off the board."

Actually, I believe it is an extreme amount of patience, for putting up with comments such as yours.

"I don't really know him or agree with his politics,"

Then respect his opinion and don't brush off anyone's opinion just because it doesn't agree with yours.

"But I would still drink with him."

... I'm sure he can sleep at night, now that he knows your friendship is not damaged by your post.

"You know how some blogs have friday cat blogging or friday squid blogging?"

... Freedom To Post, Freedom Of Speech Fridays?

"Since reactonary right wing politics is really only your pet subject, Ivan, why don't we just save 'em up for Friday."

Hmm.. following the same logic, your name begins with "M", so how bout you just go ahead and only post on Mondays? Mmm kay?

I'm bored like Ivan... of everyone talking about how ridiculous Ivan is because they don't agree with his viewpoint. This world (ie blog) wouldn't be half as interesting if everyone agreed about everything.

Post that you disagree, but don't rant about how we should all pick up a beer and be cool enough to allow Ivan to come hang out, because we're tolerant of others and all that.

Ivan is probably the most active poster on the blog, so if you don't want so many "right-wing" posts, post more. If the majority of the blog is soooo left, it should be represented in the posts.

And just so this comment wasn't completely useless and without humor, here is something useful.

 
At 11:24 PM, Blogger Ivan said...

werd

 
At 1:41 PM, Blogger Miguel said...

Sorry to bore you.

The first time this was posted I said that I disagreed.

The second time it came up I responded with reasoned objections to certain portions of the argument that freedom of speech is under seige, and even tried to add some related issues I thought were interesting.

The post above is the third time, and I didn't see any point of watching the movie past the 1st frame. My dismissive comment reflected a genuine belief that the post "Bawls" has no substance.

On further consideration, though, I see that it is more thoughtless than I thought. "Someone is provoking us!!!" is actually a rather insightful statement and not a call for government interference with speech. The protester is rightfully noting that by showing up wearing Danish flags and protective gear, the counter protesters are deliberately trying to find the most violent and criminal of the protest's participants, so that the whole event may be judged by their actions.

Anyway, while no one was looking, England has made it illegal for me to shout "IRA/ All the way/ Fuck the Queen/ And the UDA" if I ever run into Ian Paisley in England. Happy now, so-called freedom of speech advocates?

 
At 2:08 PM, Blogger Ivan said...

There are few things going on here.

First, no one really reads this blog but us. That's totally fine for spreading cool links among friends, but greatly hurts any efforts towards a diverse political discussion.

Further, I'm pretty sure there is no convincing going on. So I stopped trying by quitting the blog. I can continue to read links everyone else posts, and don't feel the need to waste much time posting about things that I know few people will read and no one will be affected by.

This isn't about this single issue at all, and it is what I meant about the "bored" comment.


Second, as far as this particular speech/cartoon issue, it is blazingly obvious that those on the side of a liberal democracy are right, and those crying about being offended are wrong.

Those starting riots or holding placards advocating violence are wrong, those saying people should be free to say what they please are right.

Those who congregate to equate freedom of speech with freedom from offense of their deity are wrong; those that come to such events advocating speech are right.

I'm afraid there is just no serious debate about that.

This, along with another comment about "provoking", is the forth or fifth time you've effectively made excuses for backward people.

It's just pretty fucking sad that you can find some moral ambiguity on this issue.

Bringing up other ways freedom of speech is limited is very relevant to a certain degree. I do not like that there are other places where you risk violence for speaking freely. It isn't that I'm a right-wing nutter, so only advocate free speech when Islamists are on the other side. Implying something like that, saying "Happy now, so-called freedom of speech advocates?" is pretty dumb and irrelevant.


To sum it up: no readers, no interesting discussion on political cartoons, serious misunderstanding of current events in the cartoon debacle, and slightly irrelevant and pretty empty.

I do plan to enjoy everyone else’s posts.

I don’t plan on reading any further comments on this one.

 

Post a Comment

<< Home