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1.04.2006

"Muslim Community Leaders Warn of Backlash from Tomorrow Morning's Terrorist Attack."

14 Comments:

At 1:36 PM, Blogger Miguel said...

That's a very long article. I am curious what you think is worthwhile about it.

The last three paragraphs say "muslim... muslim... muslim... muslim... muslim... muslim..." and then argue that Germany isn't aggressivly nationalistic enough.

 
At 2:22 PM, Blogger Ivan said...

Well, that comment was pretty funny.

The idea that all cultures are equal is pretty ridiculous. The fact that people aren't having babies is a big problem.

I haven't read the entire thing. It looks like you didn't either. So let's just laugh at the joke in my title.

Haha

 
At 3:18 PM, Blogger oded said...

what joke?

 
At 4:14 PM, Blogger Ivan said...

"Muslim Community Leaders Warn of Backlash from Tomorrow Morning's Terrorist Attack."

It's a joke because:
1) Many community leaders probably have dirty hands.
2) Way too many people cry foul for backlash that basically doesn't exist.
3) Terrorists have remarkably bad PR

 
At 4:45 PM, Blogger Miguel said...

So if you're into neoconservative gobldeygook it's funny? Like an in-joke for morons?

 
At 4:57 PM, Blogger oded said...

Random thoughts by Danger Handy:

1. If you have to explain it it aint a joke.

2."conservatives" can't talk about dirty hands for a few months.

3.Where did this paranoid fantasy about mosque bakesales funding wmd programs come from?

4. how many hits do you think came up for "violance towards muslims since 9/11?

5.The FBI’s 2001 Hate Crimes Report shows an increase in over 1600% of state reported
crimes against Muslims in the U.S., up to 481 in 2001 from 28 in 2000.

6.I do not in anyway understand how a terrorists PR or lack thereof is related to you "joke"

7. I found the article offensive and Moronic, and I am Israeli for christsake.

8. I read the whole damn thing.

 
At 5:12 PM, Blogger Ivan said...

The whole idea of a "hate crime" is ridiculous. People should be jailed for violence. Lots of people get shit for being different. If there is a crime committed, police should be involved.

That said, there is a ridiculous concern for blowback after terror attacks. Maybe it's my sources, but I've seen more calls for nonviolence against innocents in potential hate crimes than denunciation of real terrorist attacks.

That's bullshit.

Also, whenever there is a denunciation, it usually takes the form "murder is bad, but..." followed by excuses. There is a lack of real introspection. I can't stand that.


"3.Where did this paranoid fantasy about mosque bakesales funding wmd programs come from?"

You're an idiot if you think there are no western mosque fronts for money going to terrorist organizations. I didn't say all, or even a majority.

I certainly mentioned nothing about a bake-sale. Clearly they would sell things where they have a competitive advantage, like hummus or grape leaves :-P

 
At 5:19 PM, Blogger Miguel said...

I've had oppurtunities through Catholic networks to donate to the IRA. Nonetheless, I think it would tend to be offensive for a Brit to denounce Irish priests as terrorist killers.

Also, I think there's little new or noteworthy about predictions that whites will be overrun by savages if we don't look out, and Steyn's perspective is an example of old-fashioned racism (Islam as HIV, etc).

 
At 5:30 PM, Blogger oded said...

Hate crime is usefull for social analasis you are right that it shouldnt be punished differently.

The lack of introspection wrt to denounceing terrorism is because it is obvious that it is bad, and somthing that happened in the past where as people need to be convinced not to create a backlash in the future.

Militants dont need mosques to raise funds by the way: e.g. Arafat invested 1.3 million in New York-based Strike Holdings, owner of Bowlmor Lanes in Greenwich Village, through a holding company he created called Onyx Funds.

Ivan I think you should try to keep your raceist comments offline after all the west is doomed and you might be a robot clerk at a medeteranian grill some day.

 
At 6:38 PM, Blogger Ivan said...

Nothing I have said is racist. I won't even stand for the card being played.

What exactly is it about making comments that certain branches of Islam are bad for the world that seems racist?

That hypersensetivity is weak.

 
At 7:20 PM, Blogger oded said...

Nothing I have said is racist. I won't even stand for the card being played.


Clearly you know about as much about Racism as you do about playing cards .

I believe that unless you are commenting about specifics, than your saying that there are many community leaders who promote humus parties so that they can fund terrorism is harmful to finding a solution to some serious problems in this country.

How are we supposed to go and apply this pearl of wisdom, Ivan? Maybe I should go and tell people at the local mosque to knock it off. Should I boycott grapeleaves?

So if you think that you are impressing any of our readership by spouting paranoid myths, or that you will convince anyone here that being intolerant of other cultures and what they have to offer is a good idea you are sorely mistaken.

 
At 8:26 PM, Blogger Andrew said...

Iran
Birth rate: 16.83 births/1,000 population (2005 est.)
Death rate: 5.55 deaths/1,000 population (2005 est.)
Infant mortality: total: 41.58 deaths/1,000 live births

United States
Birth rate: 14.14 births/1,000 population (2005 est.)
Death rate: 8.25 deaths/1,000 population (2005 est.)
Infant mortality: total: 6.5 deaths/1,000 live births

In my opinion, tying birth rate to a sole factor such as religion is pretty silly. I know plenty of people at work that are popping out kids and probably never visit church. They might even be in the same boat as Ivan and be financially conservative Democrats ;)

 
At 8:30 PM, Blogger Andrew said...

Btw, Italy IS screwed:

Birth rate: 8.89 births/1,000 population (2005 est.)
Death rate: 10.3 deaths/1,000 population (2005 est.)
Infant mortality: total: 5.94 deaths/1,000 live births

 
At 9:40 PM, Blogger Ivan said...

This google search took 10 seconds.

I recall reading stories about some mosques basically saying "we will use the west's openness to destroy it". This isn't a majority; it isn't a plurality. I'm not grouping entire groups of people together. The number is probably not small. Many probably.

Infact, let's go back to the quote:
"Many community leaders probably have dirty hands."

The take home message is to call Islamist ideas bad for the world, and tell people who disagree that they are wrong. I've had grape leaves, hummus, and hookah in new york with you, around the corner from a muslim religious center. I have no reason to believe the people involved are bad, so I gladly give them my money in exchange for delicious services.



Andrew,
The numbers are pretty bad. I didn't link the baby problems to religion. I think it more has to do, in the west, with optimism. Socialist countries in Europe destroy the creative drive. Economies suffer and folks don't have kids.

I think you could broadly say most non-western nations are having plenty of babies.

As for the people you know, if they live in NY, then they are the minority. Blue states have fewer kids.

I think people should have as many babies as they want (preferably if they can take care of them), but I'm concerned about what it means for a society that as an aggregate doesn't seem interested in propagating.

That's what the article is about, and guesses about the causes.

 

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