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More ol' Qaqaa

This should be a sign of the times, when interested parties spin by default to get their desired outcome in the election.

The story about the missing weapons might prove to be very old, re-reported to be sensational during the last week of the election.

I guess in the same way some folks want to punish Bush for things they think could have gone better, I would like to reward Bush in part because of all those that are desperately trying to control the system to get him out.

I was all the millions pumped into this election by Soros and the Times and ANSWER to be for not. When there is such a blatant attempt to put a surprise spin on an old story in the hard news section to tilt the election for the candidate you endorse on the editorial page, there should be a blunt backlash if only to see the look on their faces when it all doesn't work.

If it does work, everyone reading this should turn off the TV, recycle their papers, and get their 'news' from primary sources, including themselves.


At 3:44 AM, Blogger Miguel said...

I have to admit that I'm pretty impressed with the Drudge-logic on this one: lost weapons which fell into the hands of terrorists and are being used to kill Americans and prodemocracy forces in iRaq prove that Saddam was a threat and we neede to invade. The mind boggles.

At 10:32 AM, Blogger Ivan said...

You entirely miss the point.

A conventional weapons cash is not being used to support the claim that Saddam sought WMD. Drudge needn't do that because Duelfer did it just fine.

The point is that you can't claim the administration in not securing something sooner than the day of the invasion. Also, there is a point about the media giants that are trying to say that to spin the election into oblivion.

At 11:35 AM, Blogger Miguel said...

Good point. It surely is not an election at all, but rather oblivion, if the newsmedia use their nefarious news-delivering infrastructure to deliver news beforehand.

Iraq war: still controversial, not yet Vietnam or WW2!

At 12:54 PM, Blogger Ivan said...

it isn't news. it's olds :)

if only now it came out about abu graib, it would be news.

At 4:03 PM, Blogger Miguel said...

Where was this case reported before? Nowhere? News.

You can get the upper hand in this debate only by pointing out that it's known that Operation Iraqi Freedom was not designed to keep control of Saddam's arsenal and, and as a result many more weapons went missing than just these.

At 4:30 PM, Blogger Ivan said...

"NBC News reported that on April 10, 2003, its crew was embedded with the U.S. Army's 101st Airborne Division when troops arrived at the Al Qaqaa storage facility south of Baghdad.

While the troops found large stockpiles of conventional explosives, they did not find HMX or RDX, the types of powerful explosives that reportedly went missing, according to NBC."

NYTimes had plenty of time to find out when troops first got there. They had so much time, in fact, that they DID find out, and buried it deep in the article, but present it as a failure. How thoughtful and considerate!

BTW - you can't have it both ways, claiming Iraq wasn't a threat, and that Bush did a poor job of stopping that threat. Pick one...you'll change more minds that way anyway

At 2:35 AM, Blogger Ivan said...

From here:

"AL QA QAA THOROUGHLY SEARCHED: On April 4, 2003, CBS (of all places) reported that the al Qa Qaa industrial site was thoroughly searched by the 3rd Infantry Division. Suspicious material was found. (Hat tip: Captains Quarters.)

The senior U.S. official, based in Washington and speaking on condition of anonymity, said the material was under further study. The site is enormous and U.S. troops are still investigating it for potential weapons of mass destruction, the official said.

"Initial reports are that the material is probably just explosives, but we're still going through the place," the official said.

Peabody said troops found thousands of boxes, each of which contained three vials of white powder, together with documents written in Arabic that dealt with how to engage in chemical warfare.

Captain Ed notes:
From this description, it sounds as if the material left at Al Qaqaa would have only been samples or starter materials, as storing 380 tons of powdered explosive in vials would have taken most of Baghdad to storeā€¦The idea that various Army units showed up at the weapons facility and strolled around a few minutes before moving up the road to Baghdad, leaving the lights on and the front door unlocked, looks more and more ridiculous. The Army knew very well what it had found, and it searched the bunkers carefully looking for the most dangerous and high-priority items.

The CBS piece continues:

The senior U.S. official, based in Washington and speaking on condition of anonymity, said the material was under further study. The site is enormous and U.S. troops are still investigating it for potential weapons of mass destruction, the official said.
There is no mention of 380 tons of HDX and RDX that disappeared at some point. It appears increasingly likely that it went missing not only before the 101st Airborne arrived on April 10, but also before the 3rd ID showed up on April 3."

At 12:03 PM, Blogger Miguel said...

So we're agreed that the missing explosives (which can be measured in terms of the number of 14 wheelers it takes to take them somewhere) were not ever reported before. Hence, news.

A second point. At the time in question (a three month period both before and after the April 10 date that's being thrown about), we had "proven" to the UN that Saddam had catastrophic WMDs and had readied our Army for an invasion. This facility was well known to be a weapons making plant, and was in fact suspected to have more dangerous stuff than what we're talking about. So its safe to presume it was under constant satelite surveillance for the time period in question. Any attempt to take it out would have been a trigger for the war (which we started out of impatience, instead). Of three options: they went missing under Saddam, who knew to direct them to guerrilla style forces for later; they went missing in the last days of the Baath regime and weren't noticed, even though Iraq was under one of the heaviest weapons-inspection efforts ever

At 12:09 PM, Blogger Miguel said...

... or they went missing afterwards, under the "supervision" of our troops (which is eminently possible -- an NBC news crew in a large number of buildings spread over many acres does not a weapons certification board make) -- none of these options reflect well on the management of the invasion (which, it should be noted, did succeed in capturing Saddam and killing Uday and Qusay, admirable achievements). But the complaints of "this story ought'nt be reported with an election underway" are as silly as silly can be -- this story is interesting and relevant to current events (specifically, daily car bombs).

At 2:09 PM, Blogger Miguel said...

Wait, it turns out I was wrong... according to national security expert R. Guiliani it was not actually the president's fault, but rather halfwitted ground troops.


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